Wed 28 Mar 2007
On Prayer
Posted by Jane under Updates
[17] Comments
We are so blessed. Through your efforts to help us get by we’ve received meals, groceries, a cleaning lady and even a baby massage. And we’ve been blessed not just by your acts of service but by your insight as well. Your losses and life experiences have given you a wisdom that has sustained us during a very difficult time.
And, of course, your prayers. We have been so amazed by the prayer support and intercession on Ramona’s behalf. And that’s good because we’ve been thinking a lot about prayer (and praying too!). I’ve been thinking a lot and wondering if I really believe that prayer “works”. I was asking Andy about this and he replied, “Well if you’re not sure it works, why have you been asking people to pray?”. Good question Andy.
It’s not just to hedge my bets, I’m not that mercenary. And it’s not just to give you all something to do, I’m not that frivolous. I think it’s because I do believe that prayer works. But I’m just not sure that we’re all in agreement about what we mean when we say “prayer works”.
I’m no expert. I’ve never read the Bible from front to back. But I do know it says in there somewhere, “Ask and you shall receive”. But I’ve been thinking lately about how vague that is. It doesn’t say what’s okay to ask for. It doesn’t say that if you ask for something, you’ll get just that. For instance, it does not say, “Ask for a pony, and you shall receive a pony”. Believe me, I’ve tried that, no pony. And don’t you think if it was that simple we’d all be floating around in our solid gold swimming pools right now drinking no-points margaritas?
Maybe it means, “Keep asking for what you want and you will receive an answer” or “Keep asking for what you want and you will receive a vision of God’s plan that will change what you ask for next time you pray”. Have you ever been in prayer, or “deep thought” for you non-prayers, and heard what I call the “still small voice” direct your desires away from what you thought you wanted? I always just assume that’s the Holy Spirit rewarding my prayers with a hint about God’s will. Does that sound nuts?
So, I guess what I’m saying is that I want you to keep praying. I want us to seek God’s will for Ramona as a community. I want to continue to be sustained by your wisdom, whether it was given in prayer or not. And yeah, I want to keep asking for what we want for Ramona, which is healing and a long, happy life. And if that’s not what God has planned, He should speak up while we pray and direct our desires elsewhere.
And I’d like to hear your thoughts, theological and otherwise. If you think I’m way off, do me a favor and let me know. Just don’t drop a pony off in the yard, we’ve got enough mouths to feed around here.
Jane.
No pony, got it. I will take it back.
Jane, I think you’re right on. This prayer thing has been driving me nuts for a long time, and I even went to visit a Catholic nun — a spiritual director — a few years ago and told her “I want to learn how to pray” because my evangelical/fundamentalist view of prayer just wasn’t working. What I learned from her was that prayer was more about listening than asking.
On the other hand, there are times I have “asked and received.” Not a pony, but, for instance, work. In January I prayed that I would be “crazy busy” so we could afford to pay our taxes. And guess what, I’m now crazy busy. And one of my clients wants their big project done by April 15 — tax day. Go figure.
Frederick Buechner says we can either choose to believe those situations are coincidence, or God’s presence in our lives. I don’t really think it’s coincidence. But I also think it’s a mystery and we don’t get to understand. I’ve basically started thinking — “who in the heck knows how God works?” But, as one of my philosophy profs used to say, “If He were a God we could understand, would He be a God worth serving?” I think not.
So now I still pray for specific things, more as a way to recognize and acknowledge my dependence on God, than to get everything I want. I also try to listen, and trust that in the end, however God “answers” my prayer, that He is good. That’s what faith is all about, isn’t it?
I want one of those no-points margaritas, please.
Prayer. Hmmmmm. I do it. Do I know if it “works” or what that means, no I don’t know. But I must think it does – and maybe what “works” is that it provides the true gift of possibility, and possibility is beautiful. Or, maybe it just “works” – meaning, you get what you ask for, maybe exactly in the form you asked for it, or maybe in a more subtle form somewhere later down the road such that you wouldn’t even recognize it.
I find sometimes I “pray” in different ways, be it meditation, be it a private thought, be it singing an actual prayer for healing with avery when putting him to bed, or be it in the car. Yes, in the car, I kiss my hand and slap the hood when driving through a yellow light and I visualize a healthy Ramona and Avery. Is that prayer? Superstition? A tangent of positive thinking? I dunno. But I do it everytime. And I believe in positive thinking too. And while when we’re little it may be for that pony (although for me, it was for a mini lop-eared rabbit and to see the Thompson Twins in concert), I think prayer also keeps us focused on what is important, what is truly important, and keeps that vision in sight, close to the heart. I also think it helps us stray away from negative thinking which I believe can be problematic. And don’t get me wrong. I’m not advising anyone to avoid contemplating the realities of scary and serious circumstances. That’s just avoidance. But I know for me in the past, excessive negative thinking, while didn’t exactly have the direct effect of produce my actual fears, still had a domino effect of spiraling into other problems – and adding new problems onto existings ones isn’t good for anyone.
So I don’t know if any of that makes sense. I had pneumonia during Religion 101 in college and missed a good third of that course, so right now I’m going with my random thoughts. Regardless, I’m still praying for Ramona.
Jane,
This is a tough subject when you are in a situation like yours. However, I do believe you are on the right track in your thinking. Here are a couple of verses in reference to your statement about asking for anything.
“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.” John 15:7 NKJV
This one verse in particular emphasizes a right relationship with God if you want him working in your life. There are plenty of other areas where God says he will give you what you desire, but as you already know those desires must fall within his will.
“Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them. And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses.” Mark 11:24-26 NKJV
These verses say that right relationship with God and others must be established to get answers to prayers. I struggled with these types of passages in the past when things seemed to get worse with Caden rather than getting better. What was I doing wrong? Who had I not forgiven? Was I not reading the Bible and praying enough? Wasn’t I praying the right way? I even asked these questions to people that I respected and looked up to for spiritual guidance. Eventually I came to realize that there’s not a man on the planet who can answer these questions even if these things were part of the problem with getting the answers that “I wanted” for my prayers. It is difficult to know the will of God as it pertains to specific issues and circumstances, but not impossible. The Holy Spirit helps in that area. The real secret comes with accepting the outcome of situations regardless of what you expected. You seem to be doing a pretty good job in that area.
I want to leave you with some recommendations based on the above, plus my experiences, and your situation.
1. Reaffirm your relationship with God by humbly surrendering control of your life and current circumstances to his will daily, maybe even hourly.
2. Ask God to continue to send the The Holy Spirit (the comforter) to reveal to you areas of unforgiveness and bitterness against God, other people, or even yourself. Satan uses these things to distract us all regularly so that we get focused on trying to do things our way rather than God’s way.
3. Continue to ask others to pray for you and give them specific areas that you are struggling with. Intercession is a powerful tool. Even when we are pent up with anger, frustration, and exhaustion there are always those around us who take joy in lifting us up in prayer while we are down. And God hears them and answers them in those times when we the ones struggling may not even be able to ask for ourselves.
4. Continue to build your faith by getting into God’s word. Faith is a gift from God and he has given us the tools to grow our faith. Romans 10:17 says that, “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Trusting God and having confidence in is willingness to answer your prayers will become easier as you strive to know and understand him better.
Thanks for the ivitation to our views, theological and otherwise. I’ve read tons of books on prayer and have read the bible more than a couple of times. And like any book and/or narrative, must be taken as a whole to best understand. I have no such pretense as to even nearly comprehending God. But I’m always praying for God and His Holy Spirit to enlighten and illuminate me. Prayer begins with Jesus telling us how to pray in Matthew 6:9-13 with what’s known as the Lord’s prayer. Jesus shows us again in the garden in Gethsemane, and Jesus tells us to pray in spirit and in truth.
For me, what little I understand is Our Father welcomes all petition/heart groanings etc. from those that are His. But I come prostrate, sometimes literally, before a Holy Omniscient God who creates and commands the big picture of future redemption for His people in Christ and all of creation someday. With that truth, I implore His will be done accordingly and acquiese willingly to His Sovereignty. Praying in spirit and truth for the things that are of God, his character, in line with His truths and ways for His glory. Prayer is answered in His timing, acording to His purposes. Prayer is intimate relationship with God Our Father. It is in listening, acknowledging, submitting, often with groans of the heart that even I know not their depths or of what I pray to a Holy, All-Knowing, Righteous, Sovereign God who cannot act out of character, or out of the grey and who literally knows all I ask or need before I even ask or think it. Prayer is a deep and mysterious communion with the Creator of all, and the mystery lies within our grasp, not His.
There is so much more Jesus talks about prayer and Our Father and His ways, but it must be discerned within the context of the bible as a whole. And it is God’s desire and delight that we seek Him. And He will give us as much of Himself as we ask for. That is my prayer always.
I love you Jane, Andy, Simon and sweet Ramona Mae. I lift you in prayer everyday.
For me prayer is a simple reminder that I am not in charge, and that I have given my life to the One who is.
Jane,
There have been two or three times in my life when it seemed desperately important that God listen to my prayers and that the outcome be that someone that I loved live. In one case, someone who was clearly a person who made the world a better place and gave from his heart to help those in need suffered great pain and died a miserable death in spite of the prayers of many who loved him. In the other cases, my mother, sister and baby neice survived traumatic circumstances to live years longer and tell the story of that terrible time. However, when I was praying the first time so fervently, I became conscious of how un-godlike my naive idea of prayer and how it works seemed to be. If someone, like Ramona is ill, and lots and lots of people pray for her, don’t we all feel just a little bit better, like maybe one of us might have an answered prayer favor coming to us, so maybe we can get our wish granted? But what about all the babies who have no one who even cares if they live or die, or even wants to hold them? Certainly God would not neglect one of them in favor of a much-loved child like Ramona. I cannot imagine a God who would choose one over the other. So where does that leave me and my prayers? For a number of years, it left me angry and not praying, and then, slowly, I realized that prayer, for me, serves as a way to center myself, to look inside myself and find what I can bring to the world to make a positive difference to someone – maybe not Ramona, but someone else. Kind of a pay it forward idea. But more importantly, I gave up the idea of a punishing or a rewarding God and replaced it with an image of a nurturing God, hence the “she” reference, because assigning a gender to God seems so limiting. I think that whyen good things happen it i not necessarily because we have made good choices or we have been good people. Certainly those behaviors influence the cosmos, but sometimes, like with Ramona, terribly sad and difficult things happen to people who are good and loving and do all they can to be honest and caring in an unjust world. By the same logic, when trouble comes, it does not mean that we earned it, or that it is part of a grand scheme that makes the world a better place. If Ramona dies, I do not believe that the world will be better off or that your family will serve some greater purpose than you would with her. I do believe, however, that God is with us always, and that God’s presence is manifest to you through all of these people who are praying and caring for you and your family. I also believe that prayer does make a difference, something beyond the understanding, peace, clarity, comfort and resolve that we come to through prayer. I can’t figure out how and why it should, but as Andy says, if you don’t know, and it’s this important, why not go for it? I think, at the very least, that prayer is keeping us all focused on Ramona, and that she can feel it in some way and that it gives her the strength and courage to heal herself.
I am not a Bible reader or one who pursues theological study, just one who continues to reflect and learn from her own spiritual journey.
Love,
Carol
Hi Jane,
When I give my testimony I often say that going through the experience of Drew’s diagnosis and open heart surgery at one week old brought me closer to God. It also changed the way that I pray. I no longer pray for a specific outcome or result (ok, sometimes I do!), but I pray for the courage and strength to get through every situation I may face. And I find that God does answer that prayer. When we had Drew in the hospital people would say “you’re so strong” and “I could never handle a situation like yours” and to be honest, I probably would have said the same thing to someone else. I can’t explain how we got through it except by the grace of God.
Dear Jane, Dear Andy,
Years ago, on a day when I was feeling particularly challenged by & frustrated with our 3 little boys, I called their father at work in hopes of receiving a little sympathy. Perhaps I did, but what I remember receiving is this exhortation: “You are bigger than they are, stronger than they are & smarter than they are”.
Going to God in prayer, for me, means going to the One Who is Bigger, Stronger & Smarter than I am. It is a way to sort through my thoughts & feelings & to get down to basics. And one of my most basic prayers is always “HELP”!
I believe that God hears our prayers of “HELP!” for Ramona. It is a priviledge to go to The One Who is Able with my petitions for her health & her healing as well as for your health, strength & peace. I look forward to many positive outcomes to our prayers.
Kiss the babies for me!
Hey Jane, I’ll brave the blog format.
When I read your post earlier today, I had two thoughts. One I emailed you about yesterday: Prayer seems ‘tricky’ to me because we know that God is able, but we don’t know what God will ultimately do and this includes the timing. And thus we’re not quite entirely sure how far to hope…we know he can, so we could get our hopes up, but we know he might not, so we ought to be cautious or ‘prudent’. This is the balancing act I find myself in at times (does anyone else feel this tension?).
Then I turned my thoughts to Scripture. I wondered if there was an example of a Biblical character praying, etc. Now there are tons of examples, I’m sure, but the one that came to mind right away was the story of David praying after his first son by Bathsheba became ill (2 Samuel 12). Now the circumstances were totally different, but David’s response is interesting. “David pleaded with God for the child, and David fasted…” in such a severe way that his servants were afraid to tell him when the child died. When he heard the news, he rose, washed and worshiped, and then ate. The servants questioned his behavior and he said, “While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who can tell whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.” Now Jane, I’m nervous sharing this particular Scripture for obvious reasons, but I think how David responded to the situation is telling. He knew God. And he prayed, seriously, fervently. He didn’t know what the outcome would be, but he definitely asked up to the moment of answer.
It’s a mystery, God is a mystery. Mystery, unknowing, is tough; I’d rather know! But, God invites us to pray, and I suspect the result if we have a soft heart is always good, whether he answers in the way we initially wish him to, or if he gently whispers his thoughts into our minds and draws us alongside his will as you so beautifully suggest. Love to you.
Definitely no pony…the first thought that pops into mind is all the extra poop you’d have to scoop!
Parenting has been such an eye opener for me, especially in my relationship with God. I mean, today, Hana asked me for a thousand different things, and I probably said no to about 990 of them. Some things she really wanted, and asked for them all day long. Some things she didn’t even really want, but thought she did at the time. She always followed my negative answers with “why?” Sometimes I gave her an explanation, even if it was over her head. Sometimes, I just said “no”. Still, other times, I said, “sure”, or “yes, but not right now, please be patient.” So, anyway, even though it seems as if she’s always asking for something, I would never want her to not ask me, to stop communicating with me.
If only I could accept God’s answers, explanation or not, with the same faith and trust that Hana has in me, well, at least at this time in her life, anyway.
I know it’s not this simple, but I hope there’s some encouragement from it. Will continue to pray!!
Our pastor just preached about prayer and communion this past Sunday. He quoted the writer Philip Yancey who asked, “Does prayer change God, or does prayer change me?” I think that prayer changes us. It makes us become more dependent on God and not try to rely on ourselves. Just like the Isrealites in the desert who were instructed to only gather enough manna for one day. They had to have faith and trust that the next day and the next and the next and every day after that, God would send them enough manna to sustain them. I believe that through prayer, God gives us the strength we need to get through one day, but then we have to go right back to His throne the next day for more. God wants to have a relationship with us and He wants us to trust Him.
My dad had heart bypass surgery a little over a year ago. We were lucky that he went to the doctor right away after having a chest pain, and the clots were found early. He was actually able to wait for almost a year to have surgery, while the doctors monitored the clots and treated them medically, so he could accumulate enough sick time and vacation time for his recovery. During that year, I prayed every day that God would heal him so that he wouldn’t need surgery, but that didn’t happen. I talked to my dad about it, and he had a very different take on it: Twenty years ago, he probably would have had a heart attack and died. He believed that God did perform a miracle – in the technology and the skill of the doctors that made the surgery a success. Vanderbilt has a cath lab in their OR, so the surgeon actually showed us before and after pictures of the blood flow in his heart. Not only that, the doctors had discovered earlier that his body had grown a vein to bypass a clot, but that vein was getting blocked as well. Who else but God could have grown my dad another vein??
I’ve always loved the Garth Brooks song “Unanswered Prayers” but I’ve come to learn that God always does answer prayers – sometimes He just answers with a “No” or “Wait.” There have been two times in my life when I have wanted something really badly and prayed so hard to get it, but God said no both times. Instead, I ended up getting my last choice, but both times it ended up being an amazing experience. Looking back on them, I can see now how God was using those experiences to shape me and the path for my life. Of course, at the time, I couldn’t see that and was heartbroken. Hindsight really is 20-20.
So, I believe that prayer works, and I join in with you in praying for healing for Ramona, but more so with you in praying that God’s will be done. I know that God has a purpose for her life, just as He has one for all of us, we just don’t always get to know right away, if ever, what that purpose is.
Dear Jane and Andy:
Hello, I hope that this note finds you well.
I just wanted to share a few thoughts brought about by your entry today.
I’m not a devout Christian nor am I well-versed in the Bible, but I’d like to think that Prayer works.
When we pray as a community (regardless of where we are at the moment) we generate a force (from my mind to yours through Him) that helps the universe (?) align with us to attain our needs. Someone told me a while back that if even just two or three were gathered in Jesus’ name he would be among them. I guess it also a means for us to ‘let go and let God’ when something is kind of too out of control for you to solve/resolve on your own. On a personal note, it’s what I can do for now since I’m living on the other side of the world from your family (Asia) so I hope that it helps a bit.
The religious words that I find sanity in are…
“Ask and you shall receive; whatever you need.”
I’m not sure if that’s really all in the Book, but they were the words of a song that struck me the most during a retreat I took last December. They reminded me that sometimes I’m too wrapped up in my level of discernment/struggle to realize that it’s ok to approach someone on the sidelines for help.
“And this, too, shall pass.”
Trivia (Sorry): I’ve seen “My Best Friend’s Wedding” (Julia Roberts) six times in the theater (with different people) and then a few more times on cable. I thought that I knew the movie from beginning to end until one day, when nothing seemed to go well, a friend told me to remember the scene in the hotel hallway where Jules shared a cigarette with a waiter (a then unknown Paul Giamatti) who told her that simple phrase. Yes, I couldn’t remember the scene at the time either.
Those few words though have been a mantra to get through those rock-bottom moments. No where to go but up, right?
Anyway, thank you very much for taking the time to read this. I want you both to know that your daily updates inspire me to be better with and to make the most of the resources that God has given me + you’re all always in my prayers.
Keep smiling and God bless!
I remember hearing “I’m bigger than you, stronger than you, and smarter than you” a lot from my mom. Then one day it wasn’t true so she kept me in line by making me do my own laundry.
Ahem…Andy…pretty sure you got bigger and stronger than yer mom but the mom is ALWAYS smarter, case in point…making you do your own laundry. lol
I’ll have to remember that one Mr. Deitrich.